https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=201.12.172.58&feedformat=atomDIYWiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T10:38:09ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.9https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Talk:Networking&diff=5355Talk:Networking2007-10-20T09:28:54Z<p>201.12.172.58: </p>
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spam goes here ...</div>201.12.172.58https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Fluorescent_Lighting&diff=5354Fluorescent Lighting2007-10-20T08:47:30Z<p>201.12.172.58: </p>
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bambola antica porcellana] [http://tikula.jino-net.ru/data/teqila/ teqila] '''Fluorescent lighting''' is the most energy efficient lighting suited to widespread domestic use.<br />
<br />
Fluorescent lighting can look good if chosen and installed well. But the all too common choice of a bare bulbed butt ugly glowstart fitting in the centre of the room with a tube chosen at random is a recipe for unpleasant lighting.<br />
<br />
<br />
=Types of fluorescent lighting=<br />
* '''Linear fluorescent''' have been with us since the 1930s. <br />
<br />
* '''[[CFL Lamps|CFL]] [[CFL Lamps|compact fluorescent]]''' lamps are thinner tube lamps which run at higher output than traditional tubes. They are commonly found with integral ballasts in the bulb base designed to replace filament bulbs, but are also available to run from separate ballasts in the luminare.<br />
<br />
* '''Circline''' tubes are a variation on the theme popular in the 1960s, and occasionally still used in homes.<br />
<br />
* '''Miniature''' tubes have found use in emergency exit signs, torches, and small displays.<br />
<br />
* '''HO high output and VHO very high output''' tubes are used in aquaria where high lighting density is required. These tubes have lower efficiency than standard tubes.<br />
<br />
* '''CCFL cold cathode fluorescents''' are very thin tubes that backlight LCD monitor</div>201.12.172.58https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Talk:Central_heating_design&diff=5353Talk:Central heating design2007-10-20T08:34:52Z<p>201.12.172.58: </p>
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[http://newssrss.profil.ms/description/artec-italia/ artec italia] [http://angelipravosu.profil.in/text/ebony-lovers.html ebony lovers] [http://tohobangleader.ide.am/description/fadeev-aleksandr.html fadeev aleksandr aleksandrov] [http://matto.jushige.com/new/wright-basil/ wright basil] [http://angelipravosu.profil.in/text/aguas-de.html aguas de marco] [http://waggie.qiye.in/library/calendari-11.htm calendari 2005 wwe] [http://newssrss.profil.ms/description/c-file/ c file exe] [http://ledstervab.profil.bz/view/resta-ancora3.html resta ancora fish] [http://angelipravosu.profil.in/text/eres-tu1.html eres tu] [http://waggie.qiye.in/library/gioielleria-oro.htm gioielleria oro argento] This is a skeleton giving a structure to an article to be written as Tuits permit.<br />
<br />
--[[User:John Stumbles|John Stumbles]] 18:54, 4 January 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
Under pipe layout you missed one: radiator on the hot water circuit :). Not as rare as it should be.<br />
[[User:NT|NT]] 22:30, 13 January 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== UFH Efficiency ==<br />
<br />
How is ufh more efficient? Elevated slab temp would surely mean more heat loss than rads?<br />
[[User:NT|NT]] 07:36, 15 January 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
If the floor is not well insulated from the walls you get heat loss through the walls and, for ground floors, into the soil outside. I don't have a link for it but recall reading of a post-WWII housing development in the USA which had UFH in the floor slabs which weren't insulated from the walls. Gardeners living in these houses thought they had green fingers (or green thumbs as they say over there) because the warming of the surrounding soil allowed everything to grow early! Of course fuel was cheap then and there so I guess they weren't too bothered about their fuel bills. (The UFH was also in copper pipe so these installations all corroded through after a few decades and most of the remaining housing stock now has conventional heating systems.)<br />
<br />
However assuming one has floor slabs properly insulated from the walls and otherwise correctly installed UFH I understand the amount of heat needed to make a room comfortably warm is substantially less than with radiator-based systems where much of the heat goes into warming the air which accumulates at the ceiling and gets lost through ventilation. It would be good to give some references when I (or anyone else) fills out that part of the article but I was still just roughing it out.<br />
<br />
--[[User:John Stumbles|John Stumbles]] 11:52, 15 January 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
It'll be interesting to read about that once its done.<br />
[[User:NT|NT]] 19:20, 15 January 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Warm walls ==<br />
<br />
I was going to add a brief comment about warmed interior stud walls as a radiator alternative, but was unsure where to put it. Walls are listed under 'other radiant' but I was thinking convection not radiating walls, just like large low temp radiators, which are of course convectors rather than radiators.<br />
[[User:NT|NT]] 01:37, 5 February 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
I've not heard of these. Sounds as if they would work by radiation (like UFH) rather than convection but that it would be difficult to get the sort of heat output you'd get from warmed solid walls or floors. Do you have any more info e.g. where they've been used, sort of construction techniques, heat ouptuts etc? --[[User:John Stumbles|John Stumbles]] 09:37, 5 February 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
OK I've started a thread on uk.d-i-y called Look. no rads.<br />
[[User:NT|NT]] 11:07, 5 February 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Convection or radiation? ==<br />
<br />
Low temperature surfaces like radiators, UFH, warmed walls etc do not gt hot enough to produce significant radiant heat, so these are all convection/conduction heaters.<br />
[[User:NT|NT]] 20:05, 6 February 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
I thought '''any''' warm body radiated heat? How much it emits by radiation depends on the temperature difference between it and its surroundings (since they are also radiating) but it should be a linear relationship.<br />
<br />
As someone pointed out in your thread on warm walls "radiators" have vastly greater output when they have multiple panels and fins behind/between the panels, which can only affect convection. You can see shimmer in the air rising above a "radiator" and see dust stains on the walls above them and other evidence of convection. You don't get any of this with UFH yet you can feel the warmth coming off it even if the air is cold, so I guess that is radiation. I would expect warm walls to have a greater convection effect than warm floors because they'd encourage warmed air to 'slide' upwards and get a convection circulation going (thus nicely warming the ceiling!). However I suspect you have to place a warm body in free air to really encourage convection - which is what rads with fins attempt to do.<br />
<br />
--[[User:John Stumbles|John Stumbles]] 00:47, 7 February 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
I dont believe there is a linear relationship between temperature and radiation.<br />
<br />
For a filament bulb, <br />
efficacy/EFFICACY = (temperature/TEMPERATURE)^4.52<br />
<br />
Which means that as temp halves, light output drops by around 2^4.52 = a factor of 23.<br />
<br />
This is why low temp water based heating produces almost no radiant heat.<br />
[[User:NT|NT]] 02:22, 7 February 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
Maybe we should take this discussion back to the group? I've started a new thread: '''Convection or Radiation?''' [[User:John Stumbles|John Stumbles]] 10:37, 8 February 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== radiator on HW circuit ==<br />
<br />
I've removed this section<br />
<blockquote><br />
'''radiator on HW circuit'''<br />
This is never an advisable option. It is found with some existing heating systems, and is almost always due to mistaken connection.<br />
Unless the radiator is a combined towel warmer and radiator in use in a bath or shower room.<br />
<br />
Signs of a radiator on the HW circuit are:<br />
* Radiator comes on sometimes in summer<br />
* Radiator sometimes fails to come on when other rads do<br />
* Insufficient heating in the affected room<br />
<br />
The solution is to replumb. Unfortuntely this means cost and time inputs, and sometimes these are not available. There are workarounds which may prove adequate, but are never ideal.<br />
</blockquote><br />
since<br />
# it was in the section on pipework layout whereas this is about configuration<br />
# I've added discussion of rads on DHW circuits to the configuration ("Controls and Zoning") section<br />
# discussion of faults in CH systems (whether from original design or arising from faults in components) belong in the [[Central Heating Operation]] article (which doesn't yet exist but please feel free to write it!)<br />
<br />
As I wrote in the Controls and Zoning section some rads, especially in bathrooms, are/were sometimes deliberately connected across the DHW or otherwise differently from other rads. The pros and cons of such arrangements are open to discussion but I think it's important to understand where such arrangements are intentional and what the intent is rather than writing them all off as cock-ups (though undoubtedly those exist too!).<br />
<br />
I take the point that its not really design. Its useful material, but not sure what article heading t put it under.<br />
[[User:NT|NT]] 19:18, 12 February 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
I've started a [[Central Heating Repair]] article - currently just an outline/skeleton - and put the point about rads on the DHW in there.<br />
<br />
--[[User:John Stumbles|John Stumbles]] 19:12, 15 February 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
== Additional Thermostats ==<br />
<br />
The section '''Additional Thermostats''' is actually about additional zones and should go in the section on zoning.<br />
<br />
--[[User:John Stumbles|John Stumbles]] 23:19, 15 February 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
===locations===<br />
Filled in the section on radiator locations. <br />
--[[User:Makewrite|Makewrite]] 00:41, 28 February 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
===markup===<br />
Is there a particular reason you used "nowiki" tags around words you put in quotes? They don't seem to have had any visual effect and I'd have thought they could be left out. --[[User:82.21.65.26|82.21.65.26]] 00:44, 2 March 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
I was simply trying to get a word in quotes. Adding quotes make wiki do wonderful but unwanted things. <br />
Anway feel free to edit as you wish - as if I needed to say that.<br />
Also added saection of routing of pipes --[[User:Makewrite|Makewrite]] 23:11, 5 March 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
Ah yes! 'One quote' ''two quotes'' '''three quotes''' "double quote chars" --[[User:John Stumbles|John Stumbles]] 23:18, 5 March 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
=== joist notching ===<br />
Added stuff about joist notching.<br />
... which was wrong. <br />
<br />
<blockquote>Ah! I naturally assumed Two-Jabs had slipped another one through :-) --[[User:John Stumbles|John Stumbles]] 00:14, 10 March 2007 (GMT) </blockquote><br />
<br />
== Structure of article ==<br />
do we need to break this page into design and installation pages? --[[User:Makewrite|Makewrite]] 22:45, 9 March 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
The installation bit isn't too big at the moment, but there are a few sections which have got quite big and are making the article a bit heavy to take in in one go. It might be time to split most of the contents of the sections into their own articles with this page being an intro and index to them.<br />
<br />
Needs a Round Tuit I think!<br />
<br />
--[[User:John Stumbles|John Stumbles]] 00:14, 10 March 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
OK Controls and Zoning split off, next up Rads methinks --[[User:John Stumbles|John Stumbles]] 16:39, 14 March 2007 (GMT)<br />
<br />
Some links which may be useful<br />
* [http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop/acatalog/Radiators.html Various rad ranges from Discounted Heating]<br />
* [http://www.cnmonline.co.uk/Radiators-c-62.html?gclid=CPac1PDV9IoCFUMLQgodDyGMpw Various from CNM Online] ''(who they?)''<br />
* [http://www.cnmonline.co.uk/Quinn-Roundtop-Radiators-c-65.html Quinn(Barlo) round/roll-top]<br />
* [http://www.cnmonline.co.uk/Quinn-Barlo-Low-Surface-Temperature-LST-Radiators-c-244.html Quinn/Barlo Low Surface Temperature]<br />
* [http://www.cnmonline.co.uk/quinnlst.pdf Quinn/Barlo LST] (PDF)</div>201.12.172.58https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Motorised_Valves&diff=5352Motorised Valves2007-10-20T08:20:12Z<p>201.12.172.58: </p>
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Motorised valves are a type of electrically actuated valve (others include solenoid valves and valves using electrically-generated thermal effects).<br />
<br />
Motorised valves generally comprise:<br />
* a synchronous electric motor<br />
* gears to reduce the speed and increase the torque output of the motor<br />
''The motor and gears are often combined in a package known as a '''Synchron''' motor.''<br />
* a linkage from the output gear to the [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hydronic hydronic] part of the valve<br />
* one or more switches (usually [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microswitch microswitches]) actuated by, for example, a cam attached to the output linkage<br />
* a spring: see below<br />
: the above components usually comprise one module, often known as the 'head', which may be detatched from the parts below for repair or replacement.<br />
* a valve controlling flow of water in the hydronic system, actuated by the head: this part is often known as the 'body'.<br />
<br />
== Configurations of motorised valve ==<br />
Valves are commonly found in the following configurations:<br />
<br />
=== 2-port ===<br />
The valve has 2 pipe connections ('''ports''') and permits or blocks flow between the ports depending on whether it is actuated or not. Flow is permitted when the valve is actuated and blocked in its resting state.<br />
<br />
=== 3-port ===<br />
The valve has 3 pipe connections, in a '''T''' formation. The centre leg of the '''T''' is the inlet and the two short arms are the outlets, usually referred to as ports '''A''' and '''B'''. Actuation controls whether the flow from the inlet passes to the '''A''' or '''B''' port. In the resting state flow is to the '''A''' port. <br />
<br />
[[Image:CH_motorised_valve_Honeywell_mid-pos.jpg|frame|'''Honeywell 3-port mid-position spring-return valve''' Probably '''the''' most common type and make of valve found in domestic CH systems.]]<br />
There are two types of 3-port valve:<br />
; Diverter valve<br />
: This is a simple change-over version of a 2-port valve: when the valve is actuated all flow is diverted to the '''B''' outlet.<br />
<br />
; Mid-position valve<br />
: In this type of valve there is a stable state in which flow from the inlet can pass to both ('''A''' and '''B''') outlet ports simultaneously. This type of valve is commonly found in domestic central heating systems where it controls flow of hot water from a boiler to hot water and radiator circuits in a '''Y-plan''' system configuration.<br />
<br />
== Types of motorised valve ==<br />
<br />
=== Spring return valves ===<br />
In these types when power is applied the motor and gears act against the force of a spring to operate the valve. When power is removed the spring returns the valve to its resting position. In a 2-port valve this is the closed position. In a 3-port valve the resting position is where flow from the inlet passes to the '''A''' port.<br />
<br />
These types of valve consume power whenever they are open (and, in the case of 3-port valves, often even when they are not). In 2-port valves the motor runs until the valve is fully open and then stalls as the actuator mechanism cannot move any further. 3-port valves are more complicated: a description can be found in the [http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/plumbing/controls/midpositionvalve.htm uk.d-i-y FAQ] and here is a [[:Image:CH_Y-plan_mid-pos-valve_wiring.gif|diagram showing a 3-port valve in a Y-plan CH system]]<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Motor On / Motor Off (MOMO) valves ===<br />
<br />
In these types of valve the motor is used to drive the motor from one position to the next. Switches in the mechanism stop the motor when it has reached its desired position.<br />
<br />
Since the motor only runs whilst the valve is changing from one state to another there is a saving in energy compared to valves where the motor runs continuously while the vale is open. Such valves may also be more reliable since the motor and surrounding components will run cooler.<br />
<br />
==== 2-port ====<br />
<br />
This type of valve changes from it closed (off) to its open (on) position when power is applied to one terminal, and from open to closed when power is applied to another terminal.<br />
<br />
ENERGISE ENERGISE<br />
TO CLOSE TO OPEN<br />
| |<br />
white yellow<br />
| |<br />
o o<br />
/ /<br />
o/ o o/ o------- orange ----> TO BOILER<br />
| |<br />
| |<br />
----------- -----------<br />
|<br />
-------<br />
| |<br />
| MOTOR |<br />
| |<br />
-------<br />
|<br />
blue<br />
|<br />
NEUTRAL<br />
<br />
Switches are shown in their non-actuated states which occur<br />
when the valve is neither fully open nor fully closed.<br />
The switch on the left operates when the valve reaches its closed position.<br />
The switch on the right operates when the valve reaches its open position.<br />
<br />
These types of valves are occasionally found in domestic central heating systems: usually as '''Satchwell''' or '''Sunvic''' valves with grey plastic heads. [[#External Links|Sunvic]] manufacture both MOMO and spring-return valves in similar casings.<br />
<br />
If a motor-open/motor-close valve is replaced by a spring-return valve, or vice-versa, the controls wiring must be modified to suit. In the case of replacing a spring-return with a MOMO valve this requires change-over contacts at the room thermostat (or progstat) and an extra wiring conductor between the 'stat and the valve.<br />
<br />
<!--- gaah! I've had to put the following text and the associated picture into an invisible table to prevent the text of the following section getting wrapped to the left of the picture, which looks wrong since the following section is nothing to do with the picture. --><br />
<br />
{| style="width:100%" border="0"<br />
|-<br />
|valign="top"|This type of valve is also found in non-domestic installations. <br />
|[[Image:CH motorised valve 2-port industrial.jpg|frame|'''Industrial 2-port motorised valve'''<br />
<br>The large orange box on the right houses the motor and gears.<br />
<br>The smaller orange box on the left contains the switches.]]<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
==== 3-port ====<br />
<br />
[[#External Links|Sunvic's]] SDMV series 3-port valves are motor-open/motor-close types but are wired identically to spring-return valves.<br />
<br />
These '''Switchmaster''' valves with bright blue plastic heads are found in some older domestic installations. ''[[user:John Stumbles|The author]] is unsure whether the wiring of these differs from that for spring-return valves.<br><br />
[[Image:CH_motorised_valve_Switchmaster_3-port_mid-pos_(end).jpg]]<br />
[[Image:CH_motorised_valve_Switchmaster_3-port_mid-pos_(top).jpg]]<br />
[[Image:CH_motorised_valve_Switchmaster_3-port_mid-pos_(inside).jpg]]<br />
<br />
== External Links ==<br />
[http://www.sunvic.co.uk/motorised_valves.htm Sunvic motorised valves]<br />
<br />
[[Category: Plumbing]]<br />
[[Category: Heating]]</div>201.12.172.58