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Talk:Neon screwdriver - Revision history
2024-03-29T10:39:55Z
Revision history for this page on the wiki
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https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Talk:Neon_screwdriver&diff=16035&oldid=prev
John Rumm at 20:09, 15 March 2012
2012-03-15T20:09:33Z
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</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l19" >Line 19:</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I could very easily be wrong on this, but I didnt think there was a question mark over their legality in work situations. AIUI the fundament of health & safety at work legislation is that equipment and methods should be safe when possible - and this would rule the neon screwdriver out right away, since a much safer means of determining whther a circuit is live exists.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I could very easily be wrong on this, but I didnt think there was a question mark over their legality in work situations. AIUI the fundament of health & safety at work legislation is that equipment and methods should be safe when possible - and this would rule the neon screwdriver out right away, since a much safer means of determining whther a circuit is live exists.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[User:NT|NT]] 12:14, 15 March 2012 (GMT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[User:NT|NT]] 12:14, 15 March 2012 (GMT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Yup, you are probably right. However unless we can find a suitable citation I think its safer to simply say "probably" illegal or similar. Its not really a DIY specific comment anyway, and there is no point creating arguments over the bit that is not really that important. </ins></div></td></tr>
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John Rumm
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Talk:Neon_screwdriver&diff=16034&oldid=prev
NT: /* Legality */
2012-03-15T12:14:57Z
<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Legality</span></span></p>
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</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l16" >Line 16:</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Looks like I dont have a link. IIRC it was on the basis that since they give false positives and false negatives, and the consequences can be fatal, and safe alternatives exist (meters), their use is therefore contrary to health and safety at work legislation.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Looks like I dont have a link. IIRC it was on the basis that since they give false positives and false negatives, and the consequences can be fatal, and safe alternatives exist (meters), their use is therefore contrary to health and safety at work legislation.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[User:NT|NT]] 19:34, 14 March 2012 (GMT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[User:NT|NT]] 19:34, 14 March 2012 (GMT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I could very easily be wrong on this, but I didnt think there was a question mark over their legality in work situations. AIUI the fundament of health & safety at work legislation is that equipment and methods should be safe when possible - and this would rule the neon screwdriver out right away, since a much safer means of determining whther a circuit is live exists.</ins></div></td></tr>
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NT
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Talk:Neon_screwdriver&diff=16032&oldid=prev
NT: /* Legality */
2012-03-14T19:34:00Z
<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Legality</span></span></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 19:34, 14 March 2012</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:John Rumm|John Rumm]] 15:54, 14 March 2012 (GMT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:John Rumm|John Rumm]] 15:54, 14 March 2012 (GMT)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Looks like I dont have a link. IIRC it was on the basis that since they give false positives and false negatives, and the consequences can be fatal, and safe alternatives exist (meters), their use is therefore contrary to health and safety at work legislation.</ins></div></td></tr>
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NT
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Talk:Neon_screwdriver&diff=16031&oldid=prev
John Rumm: /* Legality */ new section
2012-03-14T15:54:45Z
<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Legality: </span> new section</span></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 15:54, 14 March 2012</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Added False negative header.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Added False negative header.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[User:NT|NT]] 20:00, 17 April 2008 (BST)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[User:NT|NT]] 20:00, 17 April 2008 (BST)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== Legality ==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">NT, do you have a link for the (il)legal aspect of use at work? If not, do you suppose we should change it to a link to the HSE GS38 document and its recommendation instead?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">--[[User:John Rumm|John Rumm]] 15:54, 14 March 2012 (GMT)</ins></div></td></tr>
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John Rumm
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Talk:Neon_screwdriver&diff=8932&oldid=prev
NT: False negative
2008-04-17T19:00:18Z
<p>False negative</p>
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<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">==False negative==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Re False negative: they don't actually require that you be earthed to work - they body has enough stray capacitance to do the job. The main problem is just not being able to see them in anything except dim light. --[[User:John Rumm|John Rumm]] 01:00, 17 April 2008 (BST)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Re False negative: they don't actually require that you be earthed to work - they body has enough stray capacitance to do the job. The main problem is just not being able to see them in anything except dim light. --[[User:John Rumm|John Rumm]] 01:00, 17 April 2008 (BST)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Sure, but not being earthed means less current flow, you've only got the human body's stray capacitance, hence its dimmer... and this plays straight into the lit but unseen issue. Been years since I used them, so perhaps mistaken.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Added False negative header.</ins></div></td></tr>
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NT
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Talk:Neon_screwdriver&diff=8926&oldid=prev
John Rumm at 00:00, 17 April 2008
2008-04-17T00:00:53Z
<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div>Re False negative: they don't actually require that you be earthed to work - they body has enough stray capacitance to do the job. The main problem is just not being able to see them in anything except dim light. --[[User:John Rumm|John Rumm]] 01:00, 17 April 2008 (BST)</div>
John Rumm