http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_frm/thread/2a5eef7c17f35300/88454ce4283b9aa7?lnk=gst&q=%22I+wrote+this+for+another+thread%2C+but+I+think+it+deserves%22&rnum=1#88454ce4283b9aa7